A group of firefighters from North Saanich Fire Department has sounded the alarm over a mass exodus, citing a toxic work culture and concerns about management decisions that they think could cost taxpayers.
The paid-on-call (POC) firefighters at the station became the first on-call group in B.C. to unionize with International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) on May 29, citing ongoing issues with management practices. However, since then, more firefighters have resigned, now tallying 13 who have left since Chief John Trelford went on leave in April 2024 for personal reasons.
Seven of those who have left cited issues with new management as the reason for their departure.
Peninsula News Review (PNR) interviewed six firefighters, either formerly employed or still in the department.
Rick Say, a former POC firefighter, described the department as “not a healthy place” and noted a “mass exodus” of staff.
Another former firefighter, Marika de Haitre, said she experienced “personal attacks” and bullying from supervisors. When she requested her original certificates for future firefighting opportunities, she was met with resistance, then openly ignored in what she saw as a tactic to intimidate her.
Other sources echoed these concerns, describing low morale, division, a culture of intimidation and disagreements over how call statistics are calculated to justify funding requests from the district.
The district denies allegations
While the seven firefighters were unified in the reasons for their departure, CAO Stephanie Munro – who provides oversight of the fire department through the district – disputes those characterizations and says the turnover is within normal ranges.
Munro noted the anticipated annual turnover rate in the district among POCs is approximately 15-20 per cent. In a statement to PNR, she said the number of leaves is consistent with broader industry trends and influenced by a range of personal and professional factors.
Further, Munro said the district takes matters of this nature seriously and said all accusations against the deputy chief "have been unfounded and appear to be defamatory in nature.
"We have full confidence in the leadership of the department and continue to work collaboratively with the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) to finalize the District’s first IAFF contract – an important step forward in strengthening our labour relations and reinforcing our shared goals," her office said.
Munro noted that in the past year, only one formal complaint from a POC firefighter was received and was "thoroughly addressed" in accordance with district policies and procedures.
Spencer Barkley, president of IAFF 5509 union, said it has "not represented any members in bullying or workplace harassment claims."
"If any were raised, it would be our responsibility to appropriately represent our members," he added.
Upon seeking comment from the department’s management, Black Press Media was told all comments must go through the CAO's office.
Sources say CAO is aware of issues with leadership
Several sources said the department historically would only lose a handful of recruits and firefighters every year at most. They also said the CAO was aware of the issues with current leadership.
Former firefighter Brian Thomas said that he personally asked her to meet with members to hear their perspective, as complaints that reach the CAO typically come through upper management at the hall.
"I requested that she engage directly with members of the department, to gather feedback on the department’s direction and leadership. She committed to doing so but, to my knowledge, has not followed through. Had she done so, she would have learned of the dissatisfaction among the firefighters, including feelings of being unheard, bullied and harassed."
Concerns about cost to taxpayers
Beyond the workplace tensions, several firefighters raised concerns about the financial impact of the departures and a growing clash between career vs. POC firefighters.
According to a Sept. 9, 2024 North Saanich staff report, it costs around $15,000 to train one firefighter and takes 400 hours of training time.
Several firefighters expressed concern that taxpayers would foot the bill for replacing volunteers who had been committed to serving their community.
"They should be fighting to keep me, saying, 'Hey, you're a trained firefighter and we're needing people,'" Say said. "They're just willing to throw these people away."
The bigger-picture described was a culture clash where the historically volunteer-driven station is undergoing a push from upper management to become more heavily funded, with increasing numbers of paid, full-time positions.
Say described how the transition of volunteer staff into POC changed expectations. “If you got a call, you could make a bit of money at it, but if you got no calls, you could be going to the hall for 12 or 14 hours for $11 an hour – which I worked a lot. I was away from my family for 8 to 10 hours a day and then to be expected to be down in the hall for $11 an hour was unbelievable.” He noted unionizing will likely lead to better pay for POCs.
The frustration wasn’t just about the hours or the pay; it spoke to what many see as a broader effort to make the part-time system untenable.
"The mentality is actually to devalue the POC until they show holes in response; use those holes to illustrate a failure of the POC program; and use that failure to justify budget increases to patch those holes," said Dave Spencer, who served the department as a POC for 14 years. "Part of the devaluing is using standards that don't apply to us that we can't achieve, choosing to respond without POC members, and applying units from neighbouring departments ahead of our own."
Spencer, who also was a career firefighter in Vancouver for seven years, said that five years ago, the North Saanich station was "meeting all" of its standards "and doing so as volunteers."
"Times change, but what has changed here is not slight budget increases to keep up with the moderate growth of the community; instead, it's clumsy, spiteful, negligent, and in some cases dishonest management."
In a letter to mayor and council, Thomas said his decision to retire after 20 years was influenced in "large part" by what he perceived as an "artificial inflation of call volume and a lack of meaningful follow-through from the CAO." He noted that reported calls rose to 1,200 in 2024 from 350 in 2005, despite only a modest (20 per cent) population increase. He said this was partly due to responding to lower-priority medical calls and counting standby time for neighbouring municipalities.
He called the shift in service delivery a “Cadillac” level of response that was not presented to or approved by residents.
He also questioned the cost of expanded staffing and prolonged contract negotiations.
When PNR reached out to the CAO to respond to the letter, her office stated: "As for the operational questions raised, including the response matrix, call volume, and intermunicipal standby practices, these matters fall within the operational purview of fire department leadership and are aligned with industry standards and mutual-aid agreements in place across the Peninsula and region."
Three new department positions were advocated for - and later approved - in a Sept. 9, 2024 staff report that cited a "sharp rise in calls, increasing by 90 per cent from 2021 to 2023 post-COVID-19, without a proportional rise in volunteer recruitment." The new positions would result in an estimated 1.86 per cent tax increase in 2025, a 0.86 increase in 2026, followed by a 0.19 increase in 2027.
The CAO’s office defended the staffing increases and the process behind them.
"Requests for additional firefighters and a permanent FireSmart Coordinator were based on data from dispatch statistics, the Wildfire Protection Plan, the Fire Department Strategic Plan, and an independent consultant’s analysis. These were presented transparently in a public meeting and justified by service needs and comparison to neighbouring municipalities," her office said.
With 83 per cent of Canada's local firefighters being volunteers, it is common for departments to wrestle with whether or not recruitment will be enough. Chief Trelford said in a 2022 interview with PNR that every time the station starts its recruitment drive, he wonders: "OK, is this going to be the year when we are struggling to get numbers?"
Say, however, argues that ultimately, the station is losing committed volunteers.
"I really enjoyed being a firefighter. I enjoyed helping out the community, volunteering my time. But I left after four years and I thought that this was something that I was going to be a part of for a long time," he said. "I never felt like I was a valued member of it because I was a volunteer. I would put my time and effort in to be away from my family, and I never felt valued."
